Hamilton [spoilers] - Printable Version

Hamilton [spoilers] - Printable Version

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Hamilton [spoilers] - Amelia Evans - July 5, 2020

WE ALL KNOW WHAT THIS THREAD IS GONNA BE ABOUT

Hamilton came out on July 3rd. There are some of us who have seen it live, others who have just listened to the recording and others who have done it all!!

Where do you fall and what are your thoughts?

Have you seen it live AND on Disney+? What do you think? Did you like a particular version/actors better?

I WANT ALL YOUR THOUGHTS!!! (including critiques!!!)

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Jupiter Smith - July 5, 2020

So I saw Hamilton on Broadway back in 2017, and after watching it on D+ I've found myself wishing LMM had allowed a stronger vocalist to be the role of Alexander. Hurricane should've been powerful enough to rival Wait for It, but LMM's vocal abilities are blown away by Odom's. When I saw it Michael Luwoye was Alexander and he was amazing.

I'd also like to say that I love LMM's acting. His expressions and sass are what makes Alex Alex. I just wish we could combine him with another vocalist haha.

That being said! I LOVE Hamilton and have been watching it repeatedly since Friday. Philippa Soo!!!!! That scream when Philip dies!!!! The admonishing "Alexander" in Take a Break. And how amazing she was in Helpless?!?!?! God. I die.

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Amelia Evans - July 5, 2020

Lots of scattered thoughts so Im doing bullet points!! As a preface, (and sry if I've said this ad nauseum) Chris is a technical director (builds theater sets) so he's all about behind the scenes stuff, so I'll be adding in his anecdotes cause I think they're fun xDD

This was also his first time listening thru the entire thing in addition to seeing it xD

The COMPOSITION Not even halfway thru Chris was like "if this didn't win an award for composition the awards don't know what the hell they're talking about" AND DAMN IF THAT ISN'T THE TRUTH. (thankfully they did haha)
Ariana DeBose plays The Bullet and this is a great bit of trivia that's been circulating around social media!!
omg the goddamn choreography is amazing!!
I admired her before this but Jesus Christ Renée Elise Goldsberry's voice is goddamn incredible. Like everyone is amazing obv., but esp during Satisfied, I just sit marveling at the support you can hear her giving her voice. Esp at the climax of the song where she's singing "To your union, may you always" my god.
Groffsauce's spit during his songs. Also when he says "I'm so blue *STOMP*" and the lighting is just hilarious.
The costumes!!! I love them and would 100% wear the ensemble costumes just out and about during my day. What I love is they LOOK like period accurate costumes but the costumes obviously give the actors enough room to expand their diaphragms to sing so I'd be so interested in talking to the costumer about what they did. After watching this great video Bernadette Banner did on analyzing the costumes, maybe the corsets had rigid panels in the front, maybe one at the back but were stretchy at the side to give the actors room to breathe? Not an expert tho so if anyone has better guesses pls lmk cause I legit want to find this out xDD the part where she talks about liberties and silhouettes is SO fascinating and def was a lightbulb moment for me xDD
Lighting -- at approx 1hr 34min and 6secs in during "The Room Where it Happens" right after Burr sings "Congress is fighting over where to put the capital" the lights light up the top half of the set and throw it into greater relief - in the grid above where the lights are seen, Chris estimated there were probably about 200 lights if not more just up on the grid, which confirms with the lighting technician in this video!!
LAFAYETTE & JEFFERSON -- Daveed Diggs has said that he was nervous at the beginning to sing cause he's not a singer, and I think the director Thomas Kail told him to just play it up like he knew he could and I LOVE his take on it. Granted I haven't seen anything else, so I have no frame of reference lol but I just love his energy and expressions. He's perfect for Jefferson cause his talent with insane multi-syllabic verses is just uuuggghhhh
During "Story of Tonight" I love how bro-y Lafayette, Mulligan and Laurens are taking the piss at both Hamilton and Burr.
Emma I agree! I love LMM and his composition and he's a fucking genius but I'd have loved to see it with a stronger vocalist. LMM has also said himself in interviews that he purposefully didn't give Alexander a lot of choreography cause he's not a dancer, so I don't feel too bad saying this haha
Something Chris said, but the use of the revolve (the moving circle/platform) was great but where it shined was Hurricane!! Also in Non-Stop when Angelica
I know it's D+ so swearing had to be cut but I really wish they had allowed "When you knock me down I get the fuck back up again" cause that's one of my favorite lines.
I want a Christmas Album with Leslie Odom Jr. and Anthony Ramos, their voices are so smooooth
UGHH John Lauren's segment where he dies is just even that more horrible cause he died after the war was over -sobs-
This might just be me, but I don't like Leslie's vocal choice in the D+ version vs the album. In the album, his voice is smoother and more in his chest, but in D+ his voice is a bit more nasaly and sounds in his nose. Chris pointed out it might be the mics, but it feels like a definite choice and Im not sure Im here for it. The reason might to make Burr sound a bit more slippery and slick, but I still like his smoother version xD But that might just be me?
Another Chris gripe that I found hilarious: The moving staircase that Jefferson walks down right after intermission - he hates it. It's way too overbuilt and the weight that they put on it does not have to be accommodated by back wheels THAT big. They could easily have put them on wheels as small as the front wheels. I told him it might have been an aesthetic choice xD
Chris Jackson's vocals.
ELIZAS HAIR -- I hate it. Or rather Phillipa's hair And this is a gripe I had before the movie just by promo pics but I really wish they'd done something more than put it in a half ponytail or ponytail. Even something like just curling it or teasing it up a little bit to have more volume idk.
Jasmine Cephas-Jones' vocals UGH her in Say No to This, I can't - I also want her on that Xmas album with Anthony and Leslie.
in We Know, Jefferson's reaction to Burr reading Reynold's pamphlet is hilarious.
LOL in Blow Us All Away when Phillip was asking about George Eacker, the actress on his left just shaking her head and acting completely dumbstruck by him will always get my laugh. Such a small detail but she plays it SO well.
Burr's look of betrayal ugh. Leslie Odom Jr. plays it SO well

Ill probs add more cause Im watching it again right now xDD

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Elias Grimstone - July 5, 2020

(July 5, 2020 – 7:58 PM)Amelia Evans Wrote: [*]I want a Christmas Album with Leslie Odom Jr. and Anthony Ramos, their voices are so smooooth

At some point I will return with Actual Thoughts but Leslie Odom Jr. actually does have an xmas album and a spotify page Wink

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Zachariah Binns - July 5, 2020

I will also be back with more in-depth thoughts later this week, but, along with the spit, JONATHAN GROFF DOES NOT BLINK. It's unnerving and crazed, and I love it.

I really want this Christmas album, too, k thanks.

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Aldous Crouch - July 5, 2020

I was a Hamilton virgin until yesterday and it’s my new favourite thing.

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Octavia Fawley - July 6, 2020

I've only ever listened to the sound track and admittedly I only ever listed to act one. I listened to it because I thought I'd never get to see it but now I really wished I had gotten to watch it raw for the first time having heard the music. (On the note of music I really want to meet the composer of these scores.) Watching it only made me want to see it in person even more. I'm sure the different cast do it will but I do wish I would have had the chance to see the original cast in person.

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Holly Scrimgeour - July 6, 2020

I literally just finished Hamilton for the first time and I have THOUGHTS.

I love how they didn't cast based on historical ethnicity? It's a super common argument that "oh ___ shouldn't play this character because they're not white!" (see: The live-action Little Mermaid and Cursed Child scandal) and this really shuts it down. This might be common in theater but I've not been exposed to enough of it to be sure.

THE COSTUMES. I loved how they incorporated women who were in army uniforms and just normal clothes and didn't just shove them into dresses. The ensemble was just amazing.

The spinning stage floor made some of the scenes 100x better but Lady has already covered this.

Jonathan Groff had me laughing the whole time. PERFECT CASTING!

I don't know enough about theater and these performers to offer commentary BUT I LOVED IT

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Octavia Fawley - July 6, 2020

I will have more to say tomorrow but Johnathan Groff is now one of my new favorite humans and I don't think I could have asked for a better king George.

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Hermia Bonaccord - July 6, 2020

I will be back with an unhealthy amount of thoughts. I have years of Hamilove that I can't get accurately type.

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Amelia Evans - July 6, 2020

YES PLS all your thoughts everyone Im sorry I hogged a lot of it apparently I had a lot of thoughts buzzing around [Image: animesweat.gif]

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Rose Hart - July 6, 2020

Totally agree with everyone on LMM - he is good singer, arguably a better rapper than singer, but hearing him beside Renée Elise Goldsberry and the likes of Chris Jackson the weakness in his voice becomes clear. I'd love to hear the dude who replaces him as Hamilton and see what difference it makes because he is def the weakest vocalist. There is a High school version (I think its HS) on youtube and the guy who does Hamilton in that is actually excellent.

Leslie Odom Jr. - is an amazing vocalist, he does so many styles in the play, and quiet honestly without someone strong in that Burr/Narrator role I don't think the play would be anywhere near as good.

Anthony Ramos - needs more cudos! The poor guy reduced me to tears twice, by dieing twice in the same show!

Renée Elise Goldsberry - Is a god damn queen, her voice is amazing and I want to see her in every major broadway roll! Like I now NEED to see her as Elphaba - satisfied gives me chills every time I listen to it.

King George! - I saw an ADORABLE interview with LMM where he said when Harry and Megan went to see the show he apologised to Harry before hand for the way his great, great, great, great, great grandfather was depicted!

AND Daveed Diggs in Reynolds Pamphlet song was a scene stealer! He's my new favourite human.

I have a friend who did her PhD in musical composition on Hamilton, she always points out all the clever things that happen within the tempo and pacing of the show, and how each character has their own rap style. Like Washington's is very on beat and ordered, like him, Lafayettes changes from an 80 word a minute 80's style rap to double and triple time as time passes showing his evolution from a dissolute young man with little English, to a fluent, erudite confident general. Even the opening song where the number of words per minute doubles when Hamilton decides to double down on education, showing his ingestion of words accelerating as the audience is also given more words.

CRITIQUE INCOMING
I'm always disappointed that the motif of throwing away his shot doesn't have more pay off. In real life Hamiltons last letter, he wrote the night before he went out to face Burr includes a line about his intention to throw away his shot, he used the literal phrase 'throw away my shot'. Given the number of times in the show Hamilton reiterates that 'I'm not throwing away my shot', and that dueling is the etymology of the phrase 'take your shot' - in the end he does throw away his shot, the most significant, literal 'shot' of his life and he throws it away because in his personal and religious beliefs his shot, isn't more important to him than another mans life. It's not a major gripe, but I do wish there had been a little melancholy refrain about his intention to throw away this shot, just to close that arch. Unless LMM is implying that Hamilton, as Burr believed, did not intend to throw away the shot, and by wearing his glasses etc did actually intend to shoot him.

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Elias Grimstone - July 6, 2020

(July 6, 2020 – 8:00 AM)Rose Hart Wrote:
I'm always disappointed that the motif of throwing away his shot doesn't have more pay off. In real life Hamiltons last letter, he wrote the night before he went out to face Burr includes a line about his intention to throw away his shot, he used the literal phrase 'throw away my shot'. Given the number of times in the show Hamilton reiterates that 'I'm not throwing away my shot', and that dueling is the etymology of the phrase 'take your shot' - in the end he does throw away his shot, the most significant, literal 'shot' of his life and he throws it away because in his personal and religious beliefs his shot, isn't more important to him than another mans life. It's not a major gripe, but I do wish there had been a little melancholy refrain about his intention to throw away this shot, just to close that arch. Unless LMM is implying that Hamilton, as Burr believed, did not intend to throw away the shot, and by wearing his glasses etc did actually intend to shoot him.

The "shot" motif might not have explicit lyrical payoff but you can't deny the literal implications of it in the duel scene. Personally I thought the duel tied up that arc well enough without spelling it out. The audience knows that refrain so well that I feel that would be the predictable choice, to go back directly to it, but I think not saying it lends itself better to giving the dramatic irony its tragic oomph, that the once Hamilton chooses to throw away an opportunity is the once that Burr decides to act. In that, I think he leaves their actions to speak for themselves - and (as in "It's Quiet Uptown", "there are moments that the words don't reach"; LMM knows just when things are more powerful by being left unsaid).

To me what he does is more ambitious, in that in Hamilton's last frenzied moments in the duel you get the very human panic and desperation in him tying up fragments of lyrics from every different strand of the show, which musically is even more ambitious!

And on a practical level the lead-up to the duel is definitely more efficiently spent from Burr's perspective in order to show his side of the story; everyone knows Hamilton's state of mind and you have to play into Burr's paranoia about not knowing whether Hamilton is going to shoot or not. If Hamilton confirms it explicitly (even in his head for the audience's sake) it ruins all suspense and Burr's - reasonable! - doubts. To be honest, even having decided beforehand what he was going to do, I like that the "unconsciousness" of Hamilton's final decision is truthful to the thought that in those split-seconds of life and death everything probably comes down to gut instinct.

//sorry friends this Hamilton renaissance has me back to the hardcore fan days. Remember when Beans linked me to the soundtrack when it got first released (in 2015?!?!?! WUT) and I had no idea what was going on? Yeah, me too. xD

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Elias Grimstone - July 6, 2020

A separate post just to express my insane enthusiasm for the revolve stage:

In some shows the revolve is sheer gimmick and I hate it but Hamilton uses it SO EXCELLENTLY and (as with Les Mis) I always appreciate the effect of LITERAL REVOLUTIONS in any musicals about ACTUAL REVOLUTION.

/insert jenny slate meme here

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Billie Farrow - July 6, 2020

My tired butt couldn't sleep, so I actually watched this video on motifs in Hamilton at 3am. It's quite interesting.

RE: Hamilton [spoilers] - Madeleine Backus - July 6, 2020

(July 6, 2020 – 9:36 AM)Elias Grimstone Wrote: And on a practical level the lead-up to the duel is definitely more efficiently spent from Burr's perspective in order to show his side of the story; everyone knows Hamilton's state of mind and you have to play into Burr's paranoia about not knowing whether Hamilton is going to shoot or not. If Hamilton confirms it explicitly (even in his head for the audience's sake) it ruins all suspense and Burr's - reasonable! - doubts. To be honest, even having decided beforehand what he was going to do, I like that the "unconsciousness" of Hamilton's final decision is truthful to the thought that in those split-seconds of life and death everything probably comes down to gut instinct.

I guess from my perspective the confirmation of his intention to throw away his shot would have come after the duel - when the letter was opened, but you're right he's already implied as much in his advice to Philip - be a man of honor and shoot at the sky.

----

The treatment of Burr always impresses me, he could have made Burr a cartoon bad guy (Oh no! He kill the protagonist!) but Burr at the last is seen a sympathetic and just plain scared! The refrain of 'I had only one thought before the slaughter// This man will not make an orphan of my daughter' - is really powerful. And in my view is a bit of a softer presentation than Hamilton recieves, Burr's focus is his family, Hamiltons is his legacy and what will be left of him - the same impulse that made him write the Reynolds pamphlet - protecting his legacy at the detriment of his family life.

In the end Hamilton is as culpable in his own death as Burr is, he could have swallowed his pride - as Burr warned him about earlier in the show, he lost a son to a duel for Alexanders own honour etc. I find Burr very pitiable, he wasn't a bad man, just a different kind of man to Hamilton, Jefferson and co, one they didn't understand and he was excluded and maligned as a result.

I think whats most notable is that LMM did a great job of treating real people, sympathetically, respectfully, and as humans - the only person who is treated as a joke is King George - but as mad capricious tyrants go - even he got off easy.